Device for keeping LGD in two strand hot fence

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Device for keeping LGD in two strand hot fence

Postby Darroll Grant » Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:54 am

Recently a MO friend showed me a device he uses to keep his LGD from crossing his 2 strand hot fences. He has small pieces of scrub land so no cross fencing. Bend two metal electric fence post in a "U" shape. With one open end up and the other down fasten together with cable clamps at the sides leaving a hole large enough to fit over the dogs head. Before clamping thread 4 -11/2 inch diameter steel rings around the hole. After clamping together the "U", thread the dog collar through the rings. Apply to the dog. Dependant upon the size of the dog the post length may need adjustment. It had worked for him with no problems.
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Postby Janet McNally » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:43 pm

Hi Darroll,

nice to see your input here.

this device sounds something like the old time remedy for cows that crawled through the fence. sounds kinda heavy though?

Janet
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Postby Muleflock » Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:00 pm

Interesting Darroll.

I tried allot of these type of devices for the same purpose. I even fashioned a regular dog harness with a metal "antenna" that connected to a small metal plate on the underside of the back strap of the harness. The problem was that the dog would be almost halfway through the fence before it got snapped which tended to result in a forward bolt. I finally sat down with an invisible fence rep. and designed a suspended version of the system to be used for livestock and LGDs. The idea was to take advantage of the sneak approach most LGDs take when intentionally crossing an electric field wire barrier. They usually slow down as they approach the fence then position themselves for a second and then bolt under it. I suspected this behavior could be taken advantage of by an audible warning when the dog is approaching a barrier wire. I disconnected the top wire (of three strand fences) from the charger and hooked it up to an underground radio fence charger. A radio collar on the dog and it works better than anything else I tried. Currently the paddock that the invisible fence rep and I have worked on is 7 acres. We will be making adjustments and will be outfitting an additional 18 acre paddock this coming spring. It's not without it's drawbacks.

The suspended radio wire is highly sensitive to grounding and your insulators cannot "leak". Also, the initial transmitter produced too large of a field, keeping the dog 20 to 30 feet from the wire. Not acceptable for the predators we have. We finally got this down to ten feet and that seems to work best. Less than ten feet leads to some bolt throughs. The wire going from the transmitter to the field wire got damaged once from a lightening strike to the field wire and had to be replaced. It's 150 ft. from the barn to the field wire. "Hank" got the collar pulled off fighting some type of animal one night and it took a while to find the collar, which had a bite into the responder. (Replaced at no charge by invis. fence co.). The rough on the Pyr is problematic for the correct tension of the collar charger spikes to the neck. (not enough pressure and the dog ignores it, too much pressure and you get pressure sores).
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Postby Darroll Grant » Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:32 am

Mark;
Great idea with the invisible fence system. Some years back I had contacted the USDA Wildlife Services R & D office in CO with the idea of developing a collar that would be activated by the existing electric fence for the sheep. Never heard back from them. I never thought of adding a third wire to the fence for the collar. By tweaking the invisible fence system we have a local who has used dogs to keep elk from feeding on his 100+ acre flower seed fields, so field size would be a minor limitation.
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Postby Janet McNally » Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:20 am

Mark,

I have not understood the invisible technology too well. Can you tell me, can that wire that sends the signal to the dog be simply laid on the ground?, if so does it need to be inside of the electric fence or will the outside of the fence work, and was I understanding your post above...it needs to be xx feet from the electric fence?

I have thought about this before, but not sure how it can work with our constantly moving system.

janet
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Postby Bill Fosher » Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:42 pm

The wire in invisible fence emits a radio frequency signal. It's essentially a transmitter antenna. The signal is picked up by the receiver unit on the dog's collar, and depending on the device different things happen.

Some units just give the dog a shock when it gets within x feet of the fence. Other units beep within X feet, vibrate when the dogs gets closer, and gives the shock when the dog gets closer still. I think these units a programmable to allow you to determine what those distances are.
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Postby Darroll Grant » Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:37 pm

One daughter has a unit for her yard. Originally at another place they had the coated wire burried just under the soil surface. She pulled it up and it now lays on the surface. She has used little flags to show the dogs where the boundries are. For LGD use with livestock it would be best out of reach of the sheep or as a part of the fence if possible. I will try to check locally to determine wire requirements. A battery powered unit would also make for much greater convience and feasability. If it can be incorporated into the electric fence there are huge possibilities in this area for use as 2-3 strands of polywire are the norm for the thousands of lambs brought in to graze the grass seed fields during the winter.
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Postby Muleflock » Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:09 pm

Hi Darroll, Janet.

My experience is that the radio(field) wire is very sensitive to grounding. Any break in the insulation of the ground contact wire, or failure in the insulators for suspended wire applications, prevents transmission of the radio signal. Polytwine is far too "leaky" to support the system even if properly insulated. I have had people use the insulated field wire on the ground surface successfully. The problem occurs when you move the wire repeatedly. Micro fractures in the insulation allow moisture in and stop the signal from completing the loop. The system is better suited for permanent installation, be it an uninterrupted buried insulated wire, or a bare suspended wire that is completely insulated from any grounding potential.

My radio wire is suspended six inches above a wire that is connected to the standard fence charger.
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