ultrasound

[OogieM]

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[My understanding was that scanning was required. I now see that it is not. I have been studying the plans, but have more questions than answers.

Me too. I thought I had to scan. Plus NSIP wouldn't talk to me in years past my breed isn't part of the program. Look briefly at Lambplan but they also said not intereted in taking my data because no similar flocks to compare to. Will have to revisit that all I guess.

[Janet McNally]

Look briefly at Lambplan but they also said not intereted in taking my data because no similar flocks to compare to. Will have to revisit that all I guess.

Oogie this really would surprise me. Are you sure the message was 'not interested?' or were you just informed that there are indeed no other BWM flocks in Lambplan? Lambplan has not hesitated to work with a wide variety of flocks including some rare breeds.

Janet

[Wclones]

Oogie,

I am as surprised as Janet. When was the last time you tried contacted someone at NSIP? Mary is usually back to people the same day she receives a request for information. All of the contact information is under the "Contact" tab on nsip.org . We certainly are interested in all breeds. I recently asked Mary to pull the total number of flocks enrolled in NSIP. I was very pleasantly surprised. We now have 135 flocks and 18 different breeds keeping performance data through NSIP. It seems she gets new members each week. I know there are currently 6 new flocks waiting for their Pedigree Wizard to be built in AUS.

I will put her on alert to be watching for your email or phone call. What breed are we talking?

[Polypays4U]

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My understanding was that scanning was required. I now see that it is not. I have been studying the plans, but have more questions than answers.

csscsheep, I apologize for my statement on excuse. As Jerry mentioned in a post, contact the NSIP office. I'm sure Mary can help. Also I will try to help with your questions on NSIP. We can do this via private message or e-mail if you like. What breed of sheep do you have?

[OogieM]

NSIP and Lambplan both were at least 5 years ago. NSIP said they would only consider it if my breed was part of the program. I am the only one in my breed at all interested in calculating any EPDs at all.

As for LambPlan I knew there were no Welsh Mountain flocks in Australia of any breed so that was not the issue. Lambplan said that without scanning and no other flocks they could not do it.

But again, both were contacted at least 5 years ago, I'll have to check when exactly, it was abut the same time as we got our first pup Winnie from Janet.

My breed is Black Welsh Mountain sheep. The Association registered a total of 170 sheep in 2010, 53 rams and 117 ewes

As of the end of 2010 the current living population is 1485 sheep, 364 rams and 1121 ewes.

These figures include all the Canadian sheep as well as US ones.

I know the figures are down a bit from that as I got notice of several large groups of sheep that were slaughtered but I also don't have many 2011 lamb reports yet.

Fully half the listed as alive sheep are owned by people who are no longer members of the Association and I have not been able to get current accurate population data from them.

Nearly all the flocks are 6 sheep or less.

The breed appeals to hobby farms and spinners flocks because of their small size and deep rich solid black wool. But many of those folks do not ever breed their sheep so don't care about commercial traits much if at all.

[Wclones]

Oogie

I know NSIP would be happy to work with you. Contact Mary at office@nsip.org or 712-579-6376

[lambchop]

Oogie,

I know it is important to grow the number of flocks on NSIP, but with such small numbers in you flock and little hope of others participating, it would not make sense, IMO for you. What would be your objective? It is not a carcass breed, and improving wool traits, with no measured sires to choose from would be very difficult.

[Janet McNally]

As for LambPlan I knew there were no Welsh Mountain flocks in Australia of any breed so that was not the issue. Lambplan said that without scanning and no other flocks they could not do it.

But again, both were contacted at least 5 years ago,

I suspect the reasons why were mis communicated. I Joined Lambplan in 1996 and the size of my flock and scanning were not an issue (I did not start scanning until approx 5-6 years ago, and that was not mandatory, just my decision). Plus with the BWM not being a terminal sire breed, all the more reason scanning would not be an issue.

However, with the probability that trying to minimize inbreeding ruling breeding decisions, and the lack of tested rams outside of your flock, your ability to utilize this information is rather limited. Are the BWM in the UK on Signet?

Janet

[OogieM]

What would be your objective? It is not a carcass breed, and improving wool traits, with no measured sires to choose from would be very difficult.

We provide the vast majority of breeding rams to Black Welsh Breeders in the US and Canada. If I can get my own flock to be better performers it's good for the breed as a whole because we have an inordinate impact on the breed due to the numbers of rams I sell.

Black Welsh Mountain sheep *are* a carcass breed. Our meat is highly prized and I have had to turn away many large high end restaurant customers because our land base makes it impossible to expand our flock. Plus anyone attempting to do mule breeding in the US should be considering our cull ewes (most of whom are culled for white and horns not other issues) as breeders for mules. The traditional Welsh mule is a Welsh Mountain ewe dam with a BFL ram sire. Black Welsh Mountain are the only Welsh Mountain breed in North America so the only possible source of Welsh ewes for mule breeding.

Also, we do have the potential to bring in semen form the UK. I don't know about Signet but I do know there are some flocks that are in Hybu Cig Cymru in Wales.